《情感教育》 梁永安、張華等 2017-02-18
張華評梁永安譯本第一章一句
張華：梁永安譯筆的基本特色是文字乾淨俐落，讀來沒有疙瘩。
情感教育─今天讀書會的主題
http://www.online-literature.com/g…/sentimental-education/1/
譯者梁永安，處處有佳譯：
She resembled the women of whom he had read in romances. He would have added nothing to the charms of her person, and would have taken nothing from them.
[比較另一個英譯本：She resembled the women of whom he had read in romances. Nothing could be added to the charms of her person, and nothing could be taken from them. ]
http://www.online-literature.com/g…/sentimental-education/1/
譯者梁永安，處處有佳譯：
She resembled the women of whom he had read in romances. He would have added nothing to the charms of her person, and would have taken nothing from them.
[比較另一個英譯本：She resembled the women of whom he had read in romances. Nothing could be added to the charms of her person, and nothing could be taken from them. ]
[法文(其實我不懂，好玩而已)：Elle ressemblait aux femmes des livres romantiques. Il n'aurait voulu rien ajouter, rien retrancher à sa personne.]
她像是從她閱讀過的那些浪漫小說裡走出來。這女人的魅力加一份便太多，減一分則太少。
剛在讀書會上看到一個大陸譯本(1948李建吾譯)，立判高下：
她活像浪漫主義書籍裡的婦女，他什麼也不要往她身上添，什麼也不要減。
2月18日(周末)【漢清講堂】：向金恆鑣老師請教環保；討論 G. Flaubet【情感教育】；紀念John Berger (1926-2017) 等
~~~~
Sentimental Education 情感教育
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentimental_Education
我還有
根據英文本：1922 English Translation
根據英文本：1922 English Translation
https://archive.org/stream/sentimentaleduca00flauiala/sentimentaleduca00flauiala_djvu.txt
此版本，稱為"Brentano 本"。25
FINDING himself one morning, two months later, in the Rue Coq-Heron, Frederick bethought him- self that it was a good opportunity to make his momentous visit.
Quai Napoleon
Lycée Condorcet, Rue du Havre, Paris, France
繆詠華：
報告校長！
Quai Napoléon 就是今日的 Quai aux Fleurs
Ce quai construit au début du xixe siècle s'appela successivement :
此堤岸建於十九世紀：
- quai Napoléon, en 1804 ; 1804年：quai Napoléon
- quai de la Cité, en 1816 ; 1816年：quai de la Citen
- à nouveau, quai Napoléon, en 1834 ; 1834年：又變回quai Napoléon
- enfin, quai aux Fleurs, en 1879, en raison de la proximité du marché aux fleurs. 1879年:因為鄰近花市（marché aux fleurs) 所以改成 quai aux Fleurs
確切位置 如下圖所示
李健吾1906-82 譯本 上海譯文，1984 (據法文本) ，簡稱"李本"/ :2016年有北岳文譯版
梁永安 譯本 台北：野人，2013/2017 (英文本) ， 簡稱 "梁本"
李健吾 譯本 的文字比較中國，梁永安譯本的文字更近現在台灣的普通話。在
註解方面，李健吾 譯本採取詳註方式 (梁永安 譯本的註解比較簡略，然而有時有勝場，譬如說，第2章的註7，boudoirs 閨廳，李健吾 譯本無註。
每章標題：李健吾譯本，無；梁永安譯本，有，不過，與"Brentano 本"的不同。
這值得注意，舉弟1與第2章為例：
"Brentano 本"：
第2章的內文，有些地方，李健吾 譯本不如梁永安 譯本清楚。不過3本有些地方都不同，譬如說：
李健吾 譯本：
戴......思考一種浩大的哲學體系，無往而不可。
梁永安 譯本：
德洛里耶的夢想則是構思出一個擁有最大實用性的宏偉哲學體系。
"Brentano 本"：
Deslauriers dreamed of formulating an exhaustive system of philosophy, calculated to have the most far-reaching results.
~~~
李健吾 譯本：
疑惑繼熱烈的希望而來。談吐淋漓暢快，之後，又墜入深沉的緘默。
梁永安 譯本：
不過，每次狂熱地交換過這些誇張的希望之後，兩人都會開始懷疑自己不切實際，進而陷入深深的沉默。
"Brentano 本"：
Their rapturous day-dreams were followed by doubts. After a crisis of verbose gaiety, they would often lapse into a long silence.
~~~~
His wife, the pretty Madame Dambreuse, who fig- ured in the fashion journals, presided at charitable assemblies. By flattering the duchesses, she appeased the rancours of the aristocratic faubourg, and caused the residents to believe that M. Dambreuse might yet repent and render them some services.
李健吾譯本有註，並翻譯為
李健吾譯本 在史地方面的用詞有意思，可能在1930年代就翻譯了。譬如書第三章的Then he hired a piano and composed German waltzes. 德意志迴旋舞曲，近代可能直譯為華爾茲。
第四章
Frederick found himself close to fair-haired young man of prepossessing appearance, with, a moustache and a tuft of beard on his chin, like a dandy of Louis XIII's time. He asked the stranger what the matter was. 李健吾 譯dandy 為雅人，還是令讀者不知所云。梁永安 譯：風雅人士
SENTIMENTAL EDUCATION 35
" This lacks graceful outline and colour," continued Frederick's neighbour. " I am convinced, messire, that we have degenerated. In the good epoch of Louis XI, and even in that of Benjamin Constant, there was more mutiny amongst the students. I find them as pacific a? sheep, as stupid as greenhorns 愚蠢如癡呆--李健吾譯--不佳； 梁譯:像生手, and only fit to be grocers. Ye gods ! And these are what we call the youth of the schools !
註解方面，李健吾 譯本採取詳註方式 (梁永安 譯本的註解比較簡略，然而有時有勝場，譬如說，第2章的註7，boudoirs 閨廳，李健吾 譯本無註。
每章標題：李健吾譯本，無；梁永安譯本，有，不過，與"Brentano 本"的不同。
這值得注意，舉弟1與第2章為例：
"Brentano 本"：
I A PROMISING EPISODE 1 II THE WISDOM OF YOUTH .... 15
III THE RULING PASSION 24
IV THE ETERNAL FEMININE (The eternal feminine is a psychological archetype or philosophical principle that idealizes an immutable concept of "woman". Wikipedia)
梁永安 譯本：I A PROMISING PUPIL 1 II DAMON AND PYTHIAS .... 15 (梁永安譯本 有註解)
III SENTIMENT AND PASSION 感傷與激情
IV THE INEXPRESSIBLE SHE 難以形容的她！
評：第1章以"Brentano 本"為佳：第2ㄓㄤ章，以梁永安 譯本根據的為佳！第2章的內文，有些地方，李健吾 譯本不如梁永安 譯本清楚。不過3本有些地方都不同，譬如說：
李健吾 譯本：
戴......思考一種浩大的哲學體系，無往而不可。
梁永安 譯本：
德洛里耶的夢想則是構思出一個擁有最大實用性的宏偉哲學體系。
"Brentano 本"：
Deslauriers dreamed of formulating an exhaustive system of philosophy, calculated to have the most far-reaching results.
~~~
李健吾 譯本：
疑惑繼熱烈的希望而來。談吐淋漓暢快，之後，又墜入深沉的緘默。
梁永安 譯本：
不過，每次狂熱地交換過這些誇張的希望之後，兩人都會開始懷疑自己不切實際，進而陷入深深的沉默。
"Brentano 本"：
Their rapturous day-dreams were followed by doubts. After a crisis of verbose gaiety, they would often lapse into a long silence.
~~~~
His wife, the pretty Madame Dambreuse, who fig- ured in the fashion journals, presided at charitable assemblies. By flattering the duchesses, she appeased the rancours of the aristocratic faubourg, and caused the residents to believe that M. Dambreuse might yet repent and render them some services.
Faubourg - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faubourg
Faubourg is an ancient French term approximating "suburb" (now generally termed banlieue). The earliest form is Forsbourg, derived from Latin foris, 'out of',關廂 guān xiāng ㄍㄨㄢㄒㄧㄤ. 城門外的大街。元．楊文奎．兒女團圓．第二折：「拼的遶著四村上下，關廂裡外，爪尋那十三年前李春梅。」不過他了解的聖日爾曼關廂，可能待討論。
李健吾譯本 在史地方面的用詞有意思，可能在1930年代就翻譯了。譬如書第三章的Then he hired a piano and composed German waltzes. 德意志迴旋舞曲，近代可能直譯為華爾茲。
第四章
Frederick found himself close to fair-haired young man of prepossessing appearance, with, a moustache and a tuft of beard on his chin, like a dandy of Louis XIII's time. He asked the stranger what the matter was. 李健吾 譯dandy 為雅人，還是令讀者不知所云。梁永安 譯：風雅人士
- An example or a model having the ideal features of a group or class; an embodiment: "He was the perfect type of a military dandy" (Joyce Cary).
A dandy[1] (also known as a beau or gallant[2]) is term historically used to describe a man who places particular importance upon physical appearance, refined language, and leisurely hobbies, pursued with the appearance of nonchalance in a cult of self.[3] A dandy could be a self-made who strove to imitate an aristocratic lifestyle despite coming from a middle-class background, especially in late 18th- and early 19th-century Britain.
SENTIMENTAL EDUCATION 35
" This lacks graceful outline and colour," continued Frederick's neighbour. " I am convinced, messire, that we have degenerated. In the good epoch of Louis XI, and even in that of Benjamin Constant, there was more mutiny amongst the students. I find them as pacific a? sheep, as stupid as greenhorns 愚蠢如癡呆--李健吾譯--不佳； 梁譯:像生手, and only fit to be grocers. Ye gods ! And these are what we call the youth of the schools !
This lacks graceful outline and colour," 李健吾譯的，不易懂！
梁永安 譯：看看他們抗議的格調，真沒氣魄。
He extended his arms after the fashion of Frederick Lemaitre in Robert Macaire.
此句李健吾譯本有詳註，不過，文字難以表達姿態！
The old man lifted up a hideous countenance in which one could trace, in the midst of a grey beard, a red nose and two dull eyes, bloodshot from drink. " No, you appear to me rather one of those men with patibulary faces whom we see, on various occasions, liberally scattering gold. Oh, scatter it, my patriarch, scatter it! Corrupt me with the treasures of Albion! Are you English? I do not reject the presents of Artaxerxes ! Let us have a little talk about the union of customs ! "這讓李健吾的註解花了約一頁篇幅。
He was afraid of being compromised, and uttered complaints. Men in blouses especially made him feel uneasy, suggesting a connection with secret societies.李健吾 ：唯恐被牽連進去，他自憐自怨。穿工人衣服的人們，.....特別惹他不安。
梁永安 譯本第4章註解1："巴黎法學院就位在先賢祠內"，根據？
hc："演講處位在先賢祠斜對面的索邦大學新建講堂"。此為今日成果！
梁 本 p.47 末行 末字the new amphitheatre 翻譯為"新講堂"。這是否是用"Paris
amphitheatre"查，顯示出索邦大學的新大"講堂"？
And he looked at him in such a way, that Martinon,
much discomposed, was, at first, unable to see the joke.
The people pushed them on, and they were all three
forced to stand on the little staircase which led, by one
of the passages, to the new amphitheatre.
暫時結論：此書可寫1840-70年的巴黎地圖！
第5章
Stabat of Rossini Stabat Mater is a work by Gioachino Rossini 1941
李健吾 譯本 ：聖母痛苦曲
梁永安 譯本：聖母悼歌
wiki 《聖母悼歌》（拉丁文：Stabat Mater Dolorosa，或簡寫為 Stabat Mater），是13世紀天主教會稱頌馬利亞 (耶穌的母親)的一首歌，其作者有幾種不同說法，包括聖法蘭西斯教團的雅各布內·達·托迪及教宗依諾增爵三世。該歌內容與痛苦聖母有關。
現在討論末章XX WHEN A MAN'S FORTY . . 203 的翻譯：
1.註解不夠，如 Fourierism 李健吾、梁永安兩者都沒說明，現在網路資訊多。
2. 二處 ，Table-Turning， 李健吾譯本、梁永安 譯本都翻譯錯誤：它指的是19世紀流行的"一群人坐圓桌召喚神靈"，而非"販賣活動桌"。dead wall 兩本都沒翻出。
3. 其他兩處，梁永安 譯本有誤：散盡家財2/3，非1/3；3年，非2-3年。
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